Skeptomania - Paranormal / UFOs, etc.

Anonymouse · Living impaired

I ran across a interesting factoid: for the first few centuries, no one in Rome wanted to elect a Christan to public office because Christians didn't want to have anything to do with the death penalty. Of course, the Catholic Church made it its business to practice it pretty early on. The phrase "judge, jury, and executioner" belongs to Martin Luther. I've read somewhere about Quakers being sold into slavery because God willed it against those heathens. A religion is, I believe, more what it practices than it preaches. This is a slightly silly point, as a million "religions" can assent to the same beliefs but be different because the adherents may act differently in regards to them. The most obvious scriptural passage supporting pacifism is early in Matthew:

38: You have heard that it was said, "AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH."
39: But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40: If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
41: Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.
42: Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43: You have heard that it was said, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy."
44: But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45: so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46: For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47: If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48: Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:38-5:48. Other versions carry the same message. Yet the first google result for "Christianity pacifism" turns up this article, that argues that Christianity can support a nation-state waging war (for example), as the passage in question supposedly only deals with the interpersonal. Martin Luther and the Catholic Church found themselves in the business of the state (Luther was probably trying to save his neck as much as anything - the RCC wanted his head and he needed asylum in a Europe on the brink of revolutions he was seen to set in motion).

I've ran into people online who believe that the modern Roman Catholic Church is the most saintly, holy, institution on Earth. That the Pope, while technically only infallible on scripture, is the best human authority to judge morality. Yet these people had no problems supporting the Iraq war when the RCC feels it's unjustified. The question is twofold: Does Christianity preach pacifism or not, and in relation to Christianity's militarism or pacifism, do the believers of one side actively justify their end, or passively not think about it? Is it the title's question dumb because religion is what is practiced, not preached (or even for some other reason)?

Raven · Google Meister

It really depends which testament they want to use when... the new was pacifist, the old seemed to like torturing and beating the crap out of people and creating holy wars, etc... Christian religions tend to flip a coin to choose which one they're going to reference, or more so, they go with whichever one happens to suit them at the time. Jesus preached against the violence of the Old Testament a few times (one of the reasons he was considered a Jewish heretic).
Throughout history, the Catholic Church has displayed more interest in gaining power more than religious enlightenment. So, they tend to have a violent past because of it... you can't gain much power acting like a Buddhist monk...

Yaish · Intel Chief

There's enough in the bible to justify pretty much any viewpoint, so it's really a pick and choose sort of thing. What agenda do you want to preach tonight?

Raven · Google Meister

asmodee

Preachers are politicians who want more control. Cult leaders are preachers who have enough money to buy a compound.

Raven · Google Meister

true... as i've always said, politics and religion are pretty much the same thing...

paul68 · Shaved Ape

What religion preaches is the growth and increase in it's own dominance. Period. Everything else is fluff intended to maintain and create more followers adding to the former and the latter. This trait makes it a wonderful tool for the megalomaniac, the con man, the power hungry. If you want to find violence, deciet, oppression, hate, look no further than religion.