|
 Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:45 pm |
 |
|
| SilverLupin |
| Redneck Debutante |
 |
| |
| Joined: 28 Nov 2005 |
Posts: 2640
Karma: +25
|
| Location: St. Louis, Missouri |
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
| Quote: | Miracles or Madness?
Paranormal & Unexplained,
Written by Danny Penman
News of the ‘miracle' spread around the world with lightning speed. A Jewish fish cutter in New York was busily slaughtering a batch of carp when one of them started shouting apocalyptic warnings to him in Hebrew.
"The fish shouted that everyone needed to account for themselves because the end is near," says Zalmen Rosen, the fish cutter.
The fish then commanded Mr Rosen to start praying and begin studying the Torah before identifying itself as the soul of a local man who had died the previous year.
After a moment of stunned silence all hell broke loose. Mr Rosen's co-worker Louis Nivelo became convinced that the talking fish was the work of Satan and ran around screaming: "It's the devil! The devil is here!" before finally collapsing into a pile of packing crates.
Mr Rosen then began to panic and tried to kill the fish with a machete-sized knife. But the carp bucked so wildly that Mr Rosen succeeded only in slicing a huge gash in his own thumb and had to be rushed to hospital. After an exhaustive struggle, the fish flopped off the counter - still muttering in Hebrew - and was finally butchered by Mr Nivelo.
Word quickly spread that a ‘miracle' had occurred in New York and it sparked a heated debate around the world. Was it a genuine miracle or just the ramblings of a fevered imagination? After all, to those brought up with biblical tales of Moses parting the Red Sea and Jesus feeding the 5,000, the story of a talking fish hardly counts as a miracle.
Would God really reveal His presence and deliver His prophesies through a fish destined for the freezer? It seems unlikely but many now think that God is choosing to reveal His presence with increasingly surreal miracles tailored specifically for the media age.
"I believe that in a cynical and sceptical world, signposts for the human spirit must be luminous and unmistakable," says the renowned psychic Uri Geller.
"Subtle hints to the soul go unnoticed. If we are to sit up and take notice, the message has to be delivered in DayGlo capitals and bellowed through a megaphone.
"So if messages through a fish seem an eccentric way for God to communicate, it is important to remember that the Higher Intelligence has been attempting to communicate with us for thousands of years through more conventional and low-key means, such as books. So a fish makes an excellent loudspeaker for a Torah reading."
And author Irene Thompson, whose book It's a Miracle, is published this month, believes that they are becoming increasingly tailored to the needs of ordinary people.
"They aren't just rare, dramatic, biblical and life-changing experiences," she says. "They are more likely to happen to ordinary people going about their daily lives.
"There is usually no logical explanation for why a miracle has happened, why a life was saved or a patient cured. Even if an explanation can be attributed to natural phenomena, the timing and combination of factors influencing the miracle suggest the intervention of God or a higher power."
The past decade has seen an increase in the number of claimed miracles. Some, admittedly, stretch credulity, sometimes to breaking point. Religious inscriptions and symbols have apparently been found inside freshly sliced aubergines in Bolton and tomatoes in Bradford. Then there's the miracle of the milk-drinking Hindu statues. This, you may recall, involved the statues of the Hindu God Ganesh apparently imbibing spoonfuls of fresh milk in temples across the UK and India.
Dozens of ‘miraculous' sightings of the Virgin Mary have been reported, perhaps the most well-known being at Medjugorje in Bosnia. It was here that the Holy Mother was repeatedly seen by numerous local teenagers. Mind you, she has also been seen in a Mexican puddle, plastered across a Florida skyscraper, and even in a pork scratching found in a pub in Hull.
Although many so called miracles can be reasonably dismissed as delusions, hoaxes or mere coincidences, does this mean that all of them can be written off? Absolutely not. And for one simple reason: there remains a hard core of mysteries that simply cannot be explained by any conventional means.
One of the strangest and most inexplicable of these was reported in the respected British Medical Journal in 1997 and was uncovered by the esteemed consultant psychiatrist Dr Ikechukwu Azuonye. At that time he practiced at Lambeth Hospital, lectured at the University of London, and worked for the research unit of the Royal College of Psychiatrists.
The story begins in 1984 when a married woman in her 40s was referred to him apparently suffering from a psychiatric illness. Her ‘symptoms' first appeared when she was at home in London quietly reading a book when a distinct voice appeared in her head.
"Please don't be afraid," the voice said in a firm but soothing tone. "I know it must be shocking for you to hear me speaking to you like this, but this is the easiest way I could think of. My friend and I used to work at the Children's Hospital, Great Ormond Street, and we would like to help you."
She was understandably shocked but was initially able to dismiss the voice. But it refused to go away and claimed that she was physically ill and would soon need help.
The voice realised that he was causing her a lot of distress and tried to reassure her: "To help you see that we are sincere, we would like you to check out the following- " the voice said.
The voice then gave her three separate mundane pieces of information, which she did not possess at the time. She checked them out, and they proved to be true, but this failed to help because she had already decided that she'd "gone mad." In a state of panic, she went to see her doctor, who immediately referred her to the mental health unit of the Royal Free Hospital in London.
Dr Azuonye came to the conclusion that she was indeed suffering from a mental illness and prescribed a course of anti-psychotic drugs. The voice soon disappeared and she felt able to go on holiday with her husband. Whilst there, the voice returned but this time it was more insistent than ever. And to make matters even worse, it had also brought along a medical colleague from the spirit world.
They told her to return to England immediately as she now needed urgent medical treatment. They then gave her an address to report to. When she arrived, it turned out to be the brain scan department of the Royal Free Hospital.
"The voices then told her to go in and ask to have a brain scan," says Dr Azuonye. "This was apparently for two reasons. She had a tumour in her brain and her brain stem was inflamed. Because the voices had told her things in the past that had turned out to be true, she believed them when they said that she had a tumour.
"So in order to reassure her, I requested a brain scan," he says.
It turned out that the diagnosis made by the voices was indeed correct. Interestingly, says Dr Azuonye, there were no clinical signs that would have alerted anyone - including the patient - to the tumour.
The surgeon then suggested an immediate operation to remove the tumour, a decision the voices were in agreement with. They did, however, have one caveat says Dr Azuonye.
"They said they would have preferred the operation to be done at Queen's Square Hospital because they specialised in neurological diseases. But as she was already at the Royal Free Hospital they told her to have the procedure done there as it was urgent," he says.
After the operation, and when she'd recovered consciousness, the voices returned one last time to bid her farewell.
"We are pleased to have helped you," they said before bidding her goodbye.
"It is a true miracle," says Dr Azuonye. "The patient regards herself as being helped by a guardian angel."
Remarkable though this story is, it could be dismissed as a one-off were it not for similarly miraculous cases that have come to light since the paper was published in the British Medical Journal. Dr Azuonye was subsequently contacted by numerous other psychiatrists who had treated patients with similarly miraculous experiences. These doctors feared for their careers if they went public with cases that defied all conventional medical explanation.
"Can you imagine what would happen if they told their clinical team that a patient had been possessed by 'demons'?" says Dr Azuonye. "They'd be laughed out of court."
One of the few types of miracle that can be investigated by science is the effect of prayer. And amazing as it sounds, prayer might just help heal the sick. In a paper published in the scientific journal Annals of Internal Medicine in 2000, researchers reported on 23 studies on various distant healing techniques, including prayer. Thirteen of the 23 studies indicated a positive impact, nine found no benefit and one revealed a modest negative effect. The US National Institutes of Health, the equivalent of the UK's Medical Research Council, is now funding a huge trial to try and discover whether prayer does indeed work.
Dr Mary Self from Cardiff is in no doubt that prayer can miraculously heal the sick. In 1999 she was diagnosed with terminal bone cancer when she was just 34.
‘‘I was devastated," she says. "I was told that there was no treatment that would cure it and that my illness was terminal. The bottom fell out of my world.''
Mary is a devout Christian and the congregation of her Baptist church began praying for her. But her condition continued to worsen. For five long months her health became increasingly parlous and she was forced to begin planning her own funeral. She even wrote letters to her two children to be opened after her death.
Day by day hope evaporated for her but more and more people joined her congregation in praying for a cure. Word of her struggle spread worldwide but still Mary's condition continued to worsen. Her doctor finally gave her three weeks to live but then a miracle seemed to happen. A routine scan revealed that the tumour had begun to shrink. Within three weeks it had disappeared completely.
Robert Grimer, her surgeon at the Royal Orthopaedic Hospital in Birmingham, was stunned by the turn of events and asked Mary how she thought it could have happened.
"I believe it is possible for God to heal people, and the only explanation I have is that it's a miracle," she told him.
"Yes, I'll buy that," he said "There is no other answer."
It is not just Mary Self who claims that prayers have been miraculously answered. Jean Neil was cured of 27 years of paralysis when she attended a Pentecostal rally at the Birmingham NEC in 1988. When the pastor told her to get up and walk she literally ran from her wheelchair towards the stage with tears running down her face. Doctors and surgeons were at a complete loss to explain it.
And then there's the 7,000 who claim to have been healed at Lourdes, 66 of which have been officially declared as miraculous by the Vatican.
Of course, if God really is answering prayers and altering the natural course of events through miracles then it raises a host of questions. Why are some helped but not others? Why do the virtuous suffer whilst the wicked are rewarded? These questions are as old as religion itself and today we are no closer to answering them than philosophers of old.
Perhaps it's wise to heed the soothing words of Albert Einstein: "There are only two ways to live your life: one is as though nothing is a miracle; the other is as though everything is a miracle."
|
|
|
_________________
'I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it.'
- John Constantine, (Alan Moore)
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:46 pm |
|
|
| Anonymouse |
| Living impaired |
 |
| |
| Joined: 14 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 2428
Karma: +17
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Best April Fool's day prank EVER. |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:27 am |
|
|
| Yaish |
| Intel Chief |
 |
| |
| Joined: 14 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 6240
Karma: +31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| I actually saw a prank show that put a speaker in a fish and animated the mouth before. |
|
_________________
... the kilt had concealed a blaster strapped to one thigh and a knife to the other. He was aware of the present gentle customs against personal weapons, but he felt naked without them. Such customs were nonsense anyhow, foolishment from old women - there was no such thing as "dangerous weapons," only dangerous people.
--Robert Heinlein in Methuselah's Children |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:24 am |
|
|
| Dr Neo Lao |
|
 |
| |
| Joined: 30 Apr 2008 |
Posts: 35
Karma: +2
|
| Location: Sydney |
|
|
|
|
|
|
As a thought exercise, how would you (assuming you were a renowned scientist) react if someone did bring a talking fish to you?
As I said, this is a thought exercise. We'll assume that an anonymous person has dropped off a bowl with a fish in it on your doorstep. The fish does not speak in a language that you understand.
From these two assumptions, we can ignore any religious fervor. Since you do not know of the origin of the fish, you can assume that nobody is going to be shouting "miracle". We will also assume that the message (whatever it may be) is considered important by the fish as it insists on trying to communicate but you are unable to understand it.
How does one react? What would be the "proper" way to attempt to understand what is going on? |
|
_________________
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:32 am |
|
|
| Raven |
| Google Meister |
 |
| |
| Joined: 24 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 2765
Karma: -18
|
| Location: Detroit, MI, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Orian's Arm, Milkyway, Uni Alpha-Prime |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| figure out some way for it to comunicate through pictures. Most translation of languages is done by object or picture association, so that would be the easiest way... either have a very elaberate picture book, or hope it can draw. Or wait 'til God creates the bable fish so that we can thus prove God doesn't exist... |
|
_________________
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:38 am |
|
|
| Yaish |
| Intel Chief |
|
| |
| Joined: 14 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 6240
Karma: +31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If the fish is speaking in a language I don't understand, would I even recognize it as language?
If I did then that would be because I was able to bridge some gaps in the language structure, identifying nouns, etc... By default as soon as I recognize it's a language I'm on the path to understanding it. From there it would progress much like learning any new language from scratch, but with the added difficulty of incompatible mouth parts and speaking mediums. |
|
_________________
... the kilt had concealed a blaster strapped to one thigh and a knife to the other. He was aware of the present gentle customs against personal weapons, but he felt naked without them. Such customs were nonsense anyhow, foolishment from old women - there was no such thing as "dangerous weapons," only dangerous people.
--Robert Heinlein in Methuselah's Children |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:53 am |
|
|
| TheMadHobbit |
| Subway Tolkien |
 |
| |
| Joined: 17 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 1904
Karma: +24
|
| Location: NJ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
_________________
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:15 pm |
|
|
| Raven |
| Google Meister |
|
| |
| Joined: 24 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 2765
Karma: -18
|
| Location: Detroit, MI, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Orian's Arm, Milkyway, Uni Alpha-Prime |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| that will be awesome, and not just because of how much it will piss off christians either... |
|
_________________
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:08 pm |
|
|
| Yaish |
| Intel Chief |
|
| |
| Joined: 14 Oct 2005 |
Posts: 6240
Karma: +31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Yeah but the first message we figure out is going to be "So long and thanks for all the fish." |
|
_________________
... the kilt had concealed a blaster strapped to one thigh and a knife to the other. He was aware of the present gentle customs against personal weapons, but he felt naked without them. Such customs were nonsense anyhow, foolishment from old women - there was no such thing as "dangerous weapons," only dangerous people.
--Robert Heinlein in Methuselah's Children |
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:15 pm |
|
|
| SilverLupin |
| Redneck Debutante |
|
| |
| Joined: 28 Nov 2005 |
Posts: 2640
Karma: +25
|
| Location: St. Louis, Missouri |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Thank you Yaish, now I have the song of the same title from the move stuck in my head. |
|
_________________
'I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it.'
- John Constantine, (Alan Moore)
|
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001-2003 phpBB Group
|
