Skeptomania - Paranormal / UFOs, etc.

Raven · Google Meister

I have too much time on my hands as i'm sure you've noticed, so hence i'm going through GoogleVideo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

I doubt anyone will get through the whole things (it's 1:21:50), but it's interesting.

wrmd · :::::::::

I recently viewed these videos too -very interesting and left me somewhat pissed and sleepless.

But here is some other info which may be of interest:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Jim

I know PopMEch has some bas UFO-ey credence probs but I have to love this redding mine but I put thw hwole up):

FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

HOLE TRUTH: Flight 77’s landing gear punched a 12-ft. hole into the Pentagon’s Ring C. PHOTOGRAPH BY DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

Intact Windows
CLAIM: Many Pentagon windows remained in one piece--even those just above the point of impact from the Boeing 757 passenger plane. Pentagonstrike.co.uk, an online animation widely circulated in the United States and Europe, claims that photographs showing "intact windows" directly above the crash site prove "a missile" or "a craft much smaller than a 757" struck the Pentagon.

FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do--they're blast-resistant.

"A blast-resistant window must be designed to resist a force significantly higher than a hurricane that's hitting instantaneously," says Ken Hays, executive vice president of Masonry Arts, the Bessemer, Ala., company that designed, manufactured and installed the Pentagon windows. Some were knocked out of the walls by the crash and the outer ring's later collapse. "They were not designed to receive wracking seismic force," Hays notes. "They were designed to take in inward pressure from a blast event, which apparently they did: [Before the collapse] the blinds were still stacked neatly behind the window glass."
Flight 77 Debris
CLAIM: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

Thegatekeepers

Wouldnt there be part of the wings left over when they broke off? Or what about the pictures of the impact and showing no plane?

Im not saying the USA planned it, but something is indeed up

Raven · Google Meister

That's basically what i'm starting to wonder about.
From what i've seen of most plane crashes, the wings usually break away from the plane pretty easily--easially enough that they would have been more or less "folded back" when they struck the wall (leaving at least a large amount of the wing portion of the wreckage outside Pentagon, or at least behind the plane).
So... i don't know... i'm being forced to wonder. And I'm former military, i don't like to have to start wondering about stuff like this... it makes me angry...

But... the one question i really do have is, why wont they reveal the security videos that basically show the crash from two different angles. Last i heard, the information act can only be denied if the information is a threat to national security... how exactly are videos of a plane crashing into the Pentagon a threat to national security?

Vic Daring

www.911myths.com

Lots of stuff there.

Worth a read.

Couple simple questions for any Conspiracy Theorists:

1. If 9-11 was carried out by the US Govt., why use a missile or whatever on the Pentagon when planes were already used on WTC that day? What's the point of faking at that point?

2. Where are the passengers from Flight 77?

There are about a billion more, but those two should be explained before any conspiracy theory can be advanced.

Retro

I am wondering too where the passengers are from threee airplane flights crashing plus the fourth one in Pennsylvania with recordings from inside the plane showing what happened if there were no planes. Also, the surveillance videos were just released the other day from the Pentagon. The government was holding onto them until the Moussoui trial was over. They were showed numerous times the other day on Fox News Channel. One might also ask why if the Pentagon faked the whole thing why they would kill a bunch of their own people IN the Pentagon to do it? One might also ask in whose interest it is to try to get a bunch of people doubting our government, deflecting the blame from the real perpetrators and blaming Israel and our own government for the conspiracy? duh. I'm also wondering why killing three thousand people and totally screwing up our economy for a couple of years by hitting the heart of the financial capitol of our country would be in the self-interest of the President of the United States or Israel? Come on, people. This conspiracy theory crap about 9-11 is cooked up by the enemies of our country who want to get YOU to doubt and quit backing your own President and government because he and it are being too effective in fighting them and defeating them. They can't beat us with force so they are trying to do it with bogus propaganda. Are they succeeding?

Raven · Google Meister

Could someone find a better video? this is all i can find:

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/pentagon-defence060516.mov

It's a side shot, starting from the explosion... doesn't show anything else...

chefkathleen

Ok maybe I'm thick headed, why is this video important? And why did they wait until the Mous. trial was over to release it?

Raven · Google Meister

If you watch the video at the beginning of the thread, this video is mentioned explaining it's importants. basically, it's a video that could easily prove or disprove conspiracy theories.
Why did they wait...? you got me...
And why are we only seeing one out of the two videos? and why the hell can't i find a better clip of this video? this one doesn't show jack about anything... as far as it shows, the conspiracy theories could still be right...

chefkathleen

There's one here, but they all look alike to me

http://www.break.com/index/911pentagon.html

Retro

Because they did not want to be accused of trying to pollute the jury pool. And lawyers always try to control and limit information that is public before or during a trial. The explanation of why it doesn't show much has to do with the speed of the jet and the frame speed of the surveillance camera, but in one angle it does show the nose of the plane skidding along the ground and then dissolving into a fireball. And as for the conspiracy theories, none of them address the fact that all these people on four airplanes disappeared. At once. On the same day. With some making cell phone calls home telling their loved ones goodbye and that they were being hijacked, and one having a tape recording of the group trying to overpower the hijackers. Please someone tell me how a conspiracy theory that the President did it or the israelis did it explain this? And the fact that the extremist Arabs have attacked us before, before Bush ever came on the national scene? This stuff just does not make sense any way you slice and dice it. They just totally do not.

chefkathleen

Here's a clear one

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/170506reallylook.htm

Raven · Google Meister

Those are much better Chef.

I read that conspiracy theories were re-brewing after this video came out, has anybody caught what the new ones are?

chefkathleen