Skeptomania - Paranormal / UFOs, etc.

enigma · Deputy Dawg

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the science forum...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_elevator

Sabbath elevator
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Sabbath elevators
Sabbath elevator switchesA Sabbath elevator is an elevator which works in a special mode, stopping automatically on every floor, to allow for the Jewish law for abstaining from using electricity on Shabbat.

Sabbath elevators can be found in Israel, usually in big hotels and in the US and Argentina, in areas with large populations of observant Jews (like Buenos Aires).

Inscription outside a Sabbath elevator [1]:

Sabbath Elevator
On the Jewish Sabbath and Holidays
This elevator stops automatically
On each floor
In this mode, an elevator will stop automatically at every floor, allowing people to step in and out without having to press any buttons, since turning electric devices on or off is prohibited during Sabbath according to Orthodox and some Conservative rabbinic authorities [2].

Regenerative braking is also disabled if it is normally used, shunting energy collected from downward travel, and thus the gravitational potential energy of passengers, into a resistor network. This prevents violation of the Shabbat prohibition against doing useful work.[3]

The use of an elevator in a Sabbath mode, is an example of a legal workaround, where seemingly "forbidden" acts can be performed by modifying the relevant technology to such an extent that no law is actually violated. Usage of a Sabbath elevator by those who are otherwise capable is considered by some rabbinical authorities as a "violation" of the Sabbath, therefore many orthodox Jews might prefer to walk up or down the stairs instead of taking an elevator.

TheMadHobbit · Subway Tolkien

There are a lot of so-called traditions like this. So fucking hypocritical. So damned PRIMITIVE.

Raven · Google Meister

i really hate when people try to find loop-holes in their own belief systems... it's just so screwed up.

Yaish · Intel Chief

Yeah, that's fucked up. If you don't want to use the elevator, guess what? Don't use the elevator.

When I worked at Duke we had a girl who lived in the dorms who was an orthodox jew. Entry to the dorms was by swipe card, which of course were electronic. She had a key she used on Sabbath so as not to use electricity when she entered the dorms.

So guess what she did when school shut down over winter break? She used her key to sneak back into the closed dorms and tried to live there, when all students were supposed to be sent home. Regular students who had only a swipe card were locked out and could not enter the dorms until school resumed. I'm sure her rabbi was really proud.

Dr Neo Lao

Well, at least they get points for trying. An all-stops elevator isn't something I would have thought of, but I also haven't needed one.

I do recall a while back seeing a program that talked about a special phone that re-directed existing circuits rather than making / breaking circuits in order to make and receive phone calls. This followed the same reasoning as the elevator - not turning something on but still allowing 'normal' functionality (such as calling an ambulance, if the need arose).

Of course, it also depends on the nature of the religion.

Just to pick something arbitrary, let's take the "no graven images" and extrapolate that to the nth degree. If Religion X forbade ALL graven images, then people who are members of that religion ought to not have any photographs, let their photo be taken, use the internet or watch movies. That's fine if you live in a log cabin on a farm, but I can see how it would cause problems as times (and technology) change.

Yaish · Intel Chief

All these work arounds are because as society has progressed the religions really haven't. One of the cornerstones of a religion is that their strictures are "just the way it is". They rely on divine might to enforce their will, and it cannot be arbitrarily changed by man.

The problem with that of course, is that the religions were created by man in the first place and with an incomplete understanding of the universe and no hope of predicting future societies. That's why religion has been the bastion of status quo for so long, opposed to inquiry and change. As the world changes, the traditional religions become less and less relevant in their specifics.

The Jewish prohibition against pork makes sense when you're trying to raise pigs in the desert without refrigeration or modern farming methods. It doesn't make any sense with modern food safety standards.

In order to remain relevant todays religions have to reinvent themselves. The Catholic Church does that to some extent through their popes, they've actually embraced evolution, the heliocentric model and other scientific advances. Usually too late and kicking and screaming the whole way, but it's kept them from being entirely left behind.

Other religions do this by having more modern prophets (LDS), or just changing their structures to fit more modern times. They need not modernize in all ways, just enough to remain relevant (gay Protestant preachers).

Dr Neo Lao

I'll agree with that. Pretty much any religion that closes it's books and says "we will not change" is effectively saying "we don't believe God will give us any new information". Which could be re-stated as "God does not exist".

It would be amusing if the Ancient Hebrews had been commanded to refrigerate their pork rather than abstaining. Heck, I imagine that in another hundred years there will be all sorts of "magical" ways of preserving food without using current technology (or radically differing from current tech).

If (God Existed) then (God still exists) therefore (he/she/it should continue to provide direction) which provides conclusion (a religion needs a mouthpeice to be 'real').

Of course, that theory also shows that most sects could be put in the "real religion" category since most sect leaders have some sort of god complex.